Obama Declares Independence from Gutter Politics in PA

Applause

in philadelphia, barack obama declared independence from the politics of the past and challenged his supporters to work towards building a brighter future for the country born from this place.  tens of thousands -- estimates ranged from 35,000 to many times more -- waited and celebrated barack's platform of renewal for the country and reform for the democratic party.  but barack's speech in philadelphia didn't even end the day.  in fact, friday turned into saturday, as we prepared for barack's stop in wynnewood.

thursday night, actually late into the night, the high school kids from lower merion came in to make signs for barack's saturday train stop in wynnewood and phone voters with the news.  with their usual enthusiasm and efficiency, they dispatched both tasks.  isabel drew out many signs, and they were painted in bright red and blue by a handful of teens (at least).  this is a bright, dedicated group of high school seniors and juniors (with at least one sophomore) who really have a passion for electing barack obama president.

Haynes Johnson

haynes johnson, reporter with the washington post and author of a handful of books, stopped by thursday night to talk to the kids.  i know that sarina and julia both talked to haynes, specifically about their having a "divided household" where at least one of their parents supported hillary and their own efforts to elect barack.  these two have been the stalwarts of our high school efforts, and both had participated in weekend canvassing as well as our high school night events.  i hadn't actually realized that either one of their parents were hillary supporters, especially since both prized the "hope" posters they had received.  i can only wonder what i would have thought had my kid supported someone who stood in the way of my candidate in the most crucial presidential primary in a very critical year.

friday began early for me, since we were to break down the office and re-arrange everything in order to organize our canvass efforts and phone bank efforts in a more efficient manner.  in the end, we had to perform three major tasks on friday: prepare for the event by both flyering the neighborhood and train stations and make thousands of phone calls about tomorrow's event; start the preparations for monday's gotv canvass; and otherwise get ready for the weekend, including a community meeting to that effect.

Making Signs

by mid-morning, our phone bank was running at full force.  our big emphasis friday morning was saturday's whistle stop in wynnewood.  people have been asking, "when is barack coming?" for weeks, and now he was coming here.  our response was phenomenal.  people were very excited, even people who were thinking of voting for hillary.  one woman told her child, "when do you get the chance to see the next president of the united states?"  i asked her if she was supporting barack, but she told me she was leaning towards hillary.  "it's historical," was her explanation.  i have no idea what she meant, but i suppose it's been awhile since one of the major presidential candidates stopped in wynnewood.

at noon, we sent out everybody in the office (well, basically) to the streets to pass out flyers about the event.  interestingly, hillary was also in the area, at haverford on thursday and at radnor yesterday.  both of hillary's local events were considerably smaller than michelle's event at haverford.  but they were also intentionally so.  hillary's event at haverford was apparently packed, although the room itself held 300 people.  an attendee also speculated that there were another 100 people trying to listen in outside the room.  michelle had more than four times that.

PBS Visits

the volunteers that were sent out to suburban square, an old-time shopping area, ran into a number of hillary supporters.  they had lined hillary's route to radnor, with visibility swarms at several major intersections.  regardless, our volunteers had no trouble passing out their flyers, even though they ran into a number of hillary supporters who were there to stand on the corner for hillary's visibility event.  it seemed almost characteristic -- hillary's supporters gathering to wave signs at passing cars (including her's) and our supporters talking to voters, trying to tell them about another opportunity to se barack in their neighborhood.  

many of the young people involved in our youth efforts were to gather at the office at 2 to go with laura and hannah downtown to support the philadelphia.  this included several of the people out on the streets flyering.  while i don't know what time they actually left as i was busy, i do know that a big group from our office went downtown in order to volunteer at the event.

i made a couple of trips to the printers in order to get additional copies of the flyers we were distributing.  we had printed out a significant number of flyers on our own printer, but apparently a supporter or volunteer stepped up to pay for mass copying of the flyer.  i hadn't even heard of the person who kinko's had the order under.  barack's support is so broad in this area of montgomery county that there was no way to keep up with everyone who volunteers or offers to help out.  

Barack the Vote

at the height of the day, our own little call center was packed.  it was just at that time that the jim lehrer hour cameras arrived.  are we lucky or what?  the phones were manned and probably twice as many people were using their cell phones to make calls into the neighborhood.  apparently, gwen ifel was there as well (i didn't see her).  coverage of our little corner of pennsylvania is supposed to appear on pbs ("the news hour") on monday.  the upper and lower merion office was making a name for itself.  people were paying attention.  it will be interesting to see if they also stopped into the local hillary headquarters, as it seems to be rarely open (although it was this morning).

about 5:30 or so, i headed down to philadelphia for barack's speech.  the train i was on was packed like sardines with people attending the event.  interestingly -- and for reasons unknown to me -- about half of them got off at the suburban stop (i think it was called) and the other half got off with me at the market east stop.  in my continual twist of geographical irony, several people from pennsylvania asked me where i (the florida boy) was getting off the r-5.  the ever intrepid andy had told me to get off at market east and that's what i said i was doing.  i had no idea what i would do once i got there.

Waiting for Barack

market east actually let us off underneath a mall (hmmm, market east -- you'd think i'd have a clue, but i remained clueless).  after exiting the train -- an electric train, although quite different than the metra electric we have on the southside of chicago -- we went up two stories before we were at ground level.  i just followed the other passengers to the street.  but once i was at street level, my previous visits to philly let me know where i was and where i needed to go.  i scurried down to independence mall.

when i first got there, i went around the block where the visitors center and constitution center was located to get a feel for the event.  i checked into the press area but left afterward to get "man on the street" footage.  so who did i run into?  first isabel and then adam and julia, dana and ben from the office.  julia asked me about why i didn't include the flickr url when i write the diaries.  well, i hadn't thought of it and i've been slow to add all the good photos i've taken (the bad ones i delete).  but it's a good idea, so there you go!  i also throw in a dozen or so into the barack obama "2008" flickr group when i remember.  it's a good resource for following the campaign across the country -- at least i've enjoyed it.

No More Drama, Vote Obama

there were a lot of unique characters at the mall on friday night.  i loved meeting and talking to the two women who had the "no more drama" shirts.  i saw more than a few "end the drama, vote obama" buttons on people, and i believe several vendors were selling them on the streets downtown.  one of the reasons i wanted to get around outside the event itself was because i had been told that there was to be a "counter demonstration" of hillary supporters across the street from the mall itself.  while i found the gathering place just as it was described to me (a series of yard signs on several street light posts across the street, i never actually found the counter demonstration.  perhaps it was just a rumor, or perhaps it was a brief swarm, or perhaps it happened during barack's speech itself, but my efforts were for naught.

when i finally made my way back to the press area, i again ran into julia and adam, ben and dana.  they had set themselves up at the perfect location for photographs, so i joined them.  then we saw isabel, who had made her way into the "priority viewing" area.  this is definitely someone who has figured things out!  right before that, though, some of the staff started handing out the "change we can believe in" signs to people in the preferred viewing area.  i went over to one of the staffers i knew from another state and asked that she give change signs to the four volunteers i was with.  "they've been off immense help to us," i told her.  thankfully, she obliged.

Barack Speaks

barack himself did not show up on stage at the appointed hour as it were.  but dana (i think) asked me, "what are boilermakers?"  i looked over, and there was one of the volunteers who had helped load up my car with yard sign frames wearing a "boilermakers for obama" shirt.  i told her it was a drink and the mascot of purdue university.  "what is someone from indiana doing here," she asked.  he (and his two friends) also had press passes, so i asked him about that.  "we've been helping since yesterday," he told me.  when i asked about his shirt, he said it was neither of my explanations, but a union.  he had gotten it from a boilermaker who had left his cell phone during set-up.  his reward was a shirt in purdue colors!

when barack came out, the place went wild.  it seemed like every staff person from eastern pennsylvania was there -- although we learned later that the campaign had run short of volunteer credential badges so they had given staff credentials to volunteers in order to identify them as helping out at the event.  this fact would be remembered later that night.  

barack gave a short but sweet speech linking his campaign to the founding fathers who meet with the same kind of rhetorical resistance as he has.  all they had to offer was "just words," hope and various communities self-organized around the tenet of over-turning a system gone bad.  they, too, were called elists.  and they also offered a strong contrast for the people to choose: the politics of the past vs the politics of hope and change and the future.  barack's speech hit all these notes, far more eloquently than i.

Barack Smiles

In four days, you get the chance to help bring about the change that we need right now.  Here in the city and the state that gave birth to our democracy, we can declare our independence from the politics that has shut us out, and let us down, and told us to settle.

We can declare our independence from the politics that's put the oil companies, and the drug companies, and the insurance companies in charge of the decisions that impact our lives and our children's lives.

We can declare independence from the say-anything, do-anything politics that's all about how to win and not why we should; that politics that exploits our differences instead of speaking to our common concerns and our common destinies as Americans.

We can do all these things, but only if we declare our independence from the cynicism and the doubt that tells us that change can't happen.

Crowd Shots

as barack was speaking, i heard from behind me, "he looks presidential."  that's a big part of these kinds of events, to put the candidate in position so that people can actually imagine him (or her) as president (or governor, senator, etc).  again, this is why hillary always begins with a huge margin in her favor and why barack continually chips away at that margin.  voters can image him as their president -- and they are comfortable with that fact.  hillary's campaign contrasts significantly with barack's approach here.  we had a woman who visited both local headquarters and she told us that the hillary worker she talked to said that she would rather vote for mccain than barack if he were the nominee.  this was supposed to be her closing argument to convince this undecided voter to vote for hillary.  but it offended this voter.  pennsylvania nice, remember?

i take at face value those of hillary's supporters who argue that she's closer to john mccain than to barack obama.  she's certainly closer in ideology and approach to joe lieberman than barack, and lieberman is one of mccain's biggest boosters.  so we have to accept the fact that there are conditional democrats out there.  hillary's frame that she was inevitable didn't help, either. hillary has not only disappointed her supporters by her failed campaign, but her failure has clearly left many of them bitter.  but the battle over the future and soul of the democratic party is a good thing, a necessary thing.  the clintons may have figured out how to get power for themselves, but their record of electing democrats is abysmal.  there was no gingrich revolution, there was just a failure to harness the power and potential of the democratic party by a democratic president.  power must be dispersed, not concentrated.  the clintons are all about concentrating power in their own hands.

I don't believe we can bring about change if we don't declare our independence from the politics that exploits our differences and inflames the divisions in our country; the politics that feeds on fake controversy, and distraction, where you keep track of how many points you score on your opponent instead of how many problems you solve for the American people.  That may make for good headlines and good television, but it doesn't make for good government - it doesn't bring down the price of your gas or your premiums; it doesn't help you pay for college or bring your loved one home from Iraq any faster.

it is hillary and her campaign who have set up this frame that she is closer to mccain than barack.  and her supporters are falling on that sword.  it may be the single greatest act of political self-destruction in my lifetime.  hillary will survive, we know that.  it is the democratic party whose future is in question.  while hillary and her supporters seem eager to gamble with its future, barack is our only hope.  this comes across when you find comments like this:

"I am a Christian, my husband is a Christian, and my husband owns guns," the woman told him. "We are not bitter about your statement. However, we are bitter about how your opponent is spinning your statement."

gonna be some changes made.

you can still help barack win pennsylvania.  donate here to reunite the democratic party behind a strong nominee who can beat mccain; you can help barack win in pennsylvania and across the country by making phone calls now.  with the pennsylvania democratic party intervening in the democratic process, anything you can do to compensate for their interference would be welcome!



Display:


Re: Obama Declares Independence from (none / 0)

I'm an Obama supporter.  I've given up trying to read your posts, though, as the lack of capitalization makes it near impossible with such a long piece.  It's a shame, because you write well and  have bothered to put this out here, but grammar was invented for a reason.


by mady on Sun Apr 20, 2008 at 11:05:11 AM EST

thank you for caring enough... (none / 0)

to comment on something you say you didn't read.  as you've no doubt learned by now, i'm not going to alter a 20+ year "style" just because a few people don't like it.  but i certainly appreciate that you care enough about my writing to criticize it even though you didn't read it!  that's a real honor!!!


"I believe he can win. If he runs a campaign anywhere like the terrific campaign he ran to get the nomination, he'll win handily." - Ed Rendell
by bored now on Sun Apr 20, 2008 at 11:31:56 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: thank you for caring enough... (none / 0)

I tend to be a grammar fiend, but I love your style!

Keep up the writing and the hard work.


We care about politics because we know politics matters for people's lives and opportunities.
by politicsmatters on Sun Apr 20, 2008 at 11:48:49 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Obama is inflaming the differences.. (none / 0)

For example.. Obama is lying about his healthcare plan, which will not help around 20% of Americans.. the sickest Americans - He's now, I understand, lying about this, when even his senior economic advisor has admitted that he wont be able to cover those with pre-existing conditions - instead he forces them to buy insurance on the open market, the same situation that exists now, with the only addition that insurance companies will have to compute a price for everybody. Lets say you have diabetes and they say "we will insure you for $3000 a month" and you make $3000 a month.

How affordable is health insurance now? Hillary will CHANGE that situation by using the combined buying power and bargaining power of millions of people, both sick AND healthy.

And then he goes out and lies, trying to cover this up.


Universal healthcare IS a Democratic value
It's been defeated
Obama has the best $PIN that money can buy.
by architek on Sun Apr 20, 2008 at 04:05:22 PM EST
[ Parent ]

what you know is not what i know... (none / 0)

feel free to document that obama's health care plan doesn't help 20% of americans or that the 20% (as you claim) would be the sickest americans.  

since, last i heard, hillary had no intention of enacting her health care plan until the seventh year of her hypothetical administration -- iow, she has no intention of enacting health care.  it's a pretty rhetorical device designed to fool people...

i can't be fooled again.


"I believe he can win. If he runs a campaign anywhere like the terrific campaign he ran to get the nomination, he'll win handily." - Ed Rendell
by bored now on Sun Apr 20, 2008 at 09:07:19 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: thank you for caring enough... (2.00 / 1)

Oh man.  I read the first part before it became difficult to plough through the dense text.  I do like your writing, although not your sarcastic response to a well meaning comment.  If the style means more to you than getting your message out, go for it. I was actually trying to be helpful, but obviously you know exactly what you are doing, so best of luck.


by mady on Sun Apr 20, 2008 at 11:53:19 AM EST
[ Parent ]

i wasn't being sarcastic... (none / 0)

but thanks for interpreting it that way.  i understood you were trying to be helpful (again), and i recalled telling you previously (iirc) that this is my style and it's ok if you don't read it.  i was actually shocked that you read it after the last exchange.  if you have trouble reading this style, you should avoid my diaries.  that is ok...


"I believe he can win. If he runs a campaign anywhere like the terrific campaign he ran to get the nomination, he'll win handily." - Ed Rendell
by bored now on Sun Apr 20, 2008 at 09:09:31 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: thank you for caring enough... (none / 0)

Well, okay. I will say that as a representative for your chosen candidate (mine as well) you could do better than to snipe at people like you just did. It makes me wonder about his supporters, and I love the guy.

Oh, I was not criticizing your writing, I did plough through enough of it to know I would like to have completed reading the article.  It is just too difficult to get through that sea of dense type.  You clearly put a lot into this piece and it seemed a shame.


by mady on Sun Apr 20, 2008 at 12:00:48 PM EST
[ Parent ]

if that wasn't a criticism... (none / 0)

then i do not know what criticism looks like.  i didn't think it was that difficult -- i didn't put that much time into writing it, because i am actually doing real work here.  others recognize that my style is, well, my style.  it's not rocket science...


"I believe he can win. If he runs a campaign anywhere like the terrific campaign he ran to get the nomination, he'll win handily." - Ed Rendell
by bored now on Sun Apr 20, 2008 at 09:11:05 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: thank you for caring enough... (none / 0)

I don't support Obama but I give you credit for sticking to your stylistic choice.  I don't think it ruins your writing at all.  It was easy to read.  


2004 swing state margins: PA-2%, OH-2%, IA-1%, WI-0.5%, MI-3%, FL-5%, NM-1%; Alienating 50% of the party is a luxury we can't afford.
by BPK80 on Sun Apr 20, 2008 at 03:34:21 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Obama Declares Gutter Politics in PA (1.25 / 4)

if those ladies don't want drama, they won't vote Obama.

Obama IS Gutter politics.  

...and too late to try to change now.

After all, he already bought the air time......record spending for his one way messaging campaign.......with 2 new Axing Negative smear attack ads.

People ALREADY SEE HE IS FULL OF IT.

I'm so happy you he showed his hypocrisy so fully blazing as this time.....after making these grand claimss as support for his complaining over the tough questions at the debate, fresh on all's minds, to him then launching this smear attempt.

another major lapse in judgement.

...but I appreciate the laugh .


by LindaSFNM on Sun Apr 20, 2008 at 11:14:19 AM EST

Re: Obama Declares Gutter Politics in PA (1.40 / 5)

Hillary Clinton is running a ONE HUNDRED PERCENT negative ad buy in Pennsylvania.

She isn't running a single positive add.


by Mostly on Sun Apr 20, 2008 at 11:15:35 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama Declares Gutter Politics in PA (2.00 / 3)

Here's an ad she is running in PA:
http://www.hillaryclinton.com/video/161. aspx

Here's another ad she is running in PA:
http://www.hillaryclinton.com/video/159. aspx

Here's another ad she is running in PA:
http://www.hillaryclinton.com/video/158. aspx

Here's another ad she is running in PA:
http://www.hillaryclinton.com/video/157. aspx

All of these ads are very uplifting and positive - they focus on a hopeful message of hardware, competence and change.

So, I'm troll-rating you, for spewing crap that you know is false.

I encourage others to do the same.


by bobbank on Sun Apr 20, 2008 at 11:22:42 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama Declares Gutter Politics in PA (none / 0)

Nice typo.. hardware = hard work .. thinking about my busted graphics card, sorry.


by bobbank on Sun Apr 20, 2008 at 11:23:41 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama Declares Gutter Politics in PA (1.80 / 5)

You can troll-rate me all you want, but you're doing it again.  You responded to me by posting every positive ad that Hillary Clinton has ever run in Pennsylvania, and you're ignoring the ones she's running now, which is the entire point.

I was wrong before about 100% - I'll break it down further:

She's 100% negative in the Pittsburgh, Erie, Johnstown/Altoona, and Wilkes-Barre/Scranton markets - nearly half the state.  She's only running the "I was very insulted by Barack Obama" ad.

In the Philadelphia and Harrisburg markets, she's only 50% negative - there's one positive ad: it totes her economic plans, and the other is negative: it's the "Barack Obama voted to give oil companies big tax breaks".  That ad is not only negative but incorrect.

The ALP is also rolling out yet another negative ad, but no word on where it's going to air.


by Mostly on Sun Apr 20, 2008 at 11:32:48 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama Declares Gutter Politics in PA (2.00 / 3)

Obama doesn't have negative ads running, right?

The P/R stunt getting a former General to say that Hillary has no moral authority to place a wreath on a grave because of her Bosnia remarks was real positive, right?  It didn't make a LIAR out of Barack when he swore that his campaign would only talk about this when asked, right?

The Harry & Louise style mailers trying to scare people out of wanting universal healthcare is real positive, right?

Give me a break.  I never troll rate someone for disagreeing with me.  I don't even mind if they insult me.

But for spewing crap you know is false - absolutely.  


by bobbank on Sun Apr 20, 2008 at 11:35:29 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama Declares Gutter Politics in PA (1.66 / 3)

First you put the words from a sermon of Jeremiah Wright into the mouth of "the Obama campaign", then you link to Clinton ads that she's not running.

Everything I've written is completely factual and you troll-rate me for it.


by Mostly on Sun Apr 20, 2008 at 11:39:37 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama Declares Gutter Politics in PA (none / 0)

One of the "negative ads" Clinton folks point to is entirely made up of quotes from PA newspaper editorials.


We care about politics because we know politics matters for people's lives and opportunities.
by politicsmatters on Sun Apr 20, 2008 at 11:49:42 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama Declares Gutter Politics in PA (2.00 / 1)

That doesn't excuse it. Are you that blinded by the Obama spin?

Are you saying as long as Hillary quoted other people saying critical things about Obama that it wouldn't be negative?

Laughable.


by steveinohio on Sun Apr 20, 2008 at 12:23:49 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama Declares Gutter Politics in PA (none / 0)

The point is that newspaper editorial boards (not to mention voters and superdelegates) disproportionately think Clinton is the one who has been more negative.

I'm sure you Clinton folks sincerely think Obama has been more negative, but most folks, including people who were uncommitted earlier, disagree with you.


We care about politics because we know politics matters for people's lives and opportunities.
by politicsmatters on Sun Apr 20, 2008 at 01:58:56 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama Declares Gutter Politics in PA (2.00 / 2)

Jeremiah Wright was a National Adviser to the campaign when he made those statements.  The fact that he was speaking for the campaign from the pulpit is the reason his church is currently under investigation for tax fraud - it violated their non-profit purpose according to IRS rules.

Hopefully (and likely) the church will be fine.

But, even though Obama claims to have "disowned" Wright during the debate, you cannot pretend he was not working for the campaign at the time.


by bobbank on Sun Apr 20, 2008 at 12:31:10 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I thought this was snark (none / 0)

but you seriously believe this...

lol


accepting McLettuce is like being 9 years old and forced to eat your own cooking
by Sychotic1 on Sun Apr 20, 2008 at 02:25:46 PM EST
[ Parent ]

bullshit... (none / 0)

you don't seem to know what you are talking about.  feel free to provide evidence that wright was "a National Adviser" right after 9-11.

moreover, your lies continue on who and why the ucc is being investigated by the irs.  trinity ucc -- wright's church -- is not being investigated by the irs, the ucc is.

feel free to show that wright was "working" for the campaign, meaning drawing a paycheck from it.  if you meant that he was volunteering for the campaign, that's fine.  but the other statements were clearly and intentional deceptive, and you obviously know better.  pretty disgusting, if you asked me...


"I believe he can win. If he runs a campaign anywhere like the terrific campaign he ran to get the nomination, he'll win handily." - Ed Rendell
by bored now on Sun Apr 20, 2008 at 09:17:13 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama Declares Gutter Politics in PA (none / 0)

I troll rate you because you say things that you know are false, and that add nothing to the conversation - in short, because you're trolling.


by bobbank on Sun Apr 20, 2008 at 12:45:12 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Uprated (2.00 / 2)

TR abuse.


by ReillyDiefenbach on Sun Apr 20, 2008 at 11:52:25 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Uprated (none / 0)

No shit.  Thanks.


by Mostly on Sun Apr 20, 2008 at 11:58:11 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama Declares Gutter Politics in PA (1.50 / 2)

BULL!  But truth and facts is never what most Obama followers dealt with, so why start now, huh?


by LindaSFNM on Sun Apr 20, 2008 at 11:38:38 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama Declares Gutter Politics in PA (none / 0)

Oh crap Linda... that's with supporters on both sides and you know it.  there are some Clinton supporters on this site that wouldn't know the truth if it smacked them upside the head.


Like the nominee, don't like the nominee... Our nominee is still better than John McCain...
by JenKinFLA on Sun Apr 20, 2008 at 12:07:24 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Independence from Reality (2.00 / 2)

Dear diarist:

(1) Please capitalize sentences, and consider punctuation.

(2) Please explain the Obama campaign's actions on Saturday, in light of your claim that they are independent of gutter politics?

In particular:

(a) cheap P/R stunt using a former General to say that, because of Bosnia, Hillary does not have the moral authority to lay a wreath on the tomb of the fallen soldier, and must therefore not be elected

(b) Harry & Louise style mailers, scaring people into not wanting healthcare, as documented on factcheck.org

(c) NAFTA mailers that lie, scare people into not wanting trade, and also continue to cite quotations that Barack has been forced to admit publically are not true, as documented on factcheck.org

(d) Devoting the majority of his speeches Thursday to complaining about the debate - rather than focusing on important issues like why he chooses to shut 15,000,000 Americans out in his Health Care plan - and issue even Elizabeth Edwards felt obliged to criticize him for.

Thank you.


by bobbank on Sun Apr 20, 2008 at 11:16:47 AM EST

Re: Independence from Reality (1.50 / 2)

We all know that HRC worked to pass NAFTA. That can't be troll rated down the memory hole.


We care about politics because we know politics matters for people's lives and opportunities.
by politicsmatters on Sun Apr 20, 2008 at 11:50:14 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Independence from Reality (2.00 / 2)

We have testimony from people who were AT the meeting that say the opposite.

Regardless, we have a record with Sen. Clinton, and her own track record is perfectly clear - she has always said that the concept was good, but that the implementation needed to be improved.


by bobbank on Sun Apr 20, 2008 at 12:33:12 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Independence from Reality (none / 0)

No you don't. If you have evidence, post a link.


We care about politics because we know politics matters for people's lives and opportunities.
by politicsmatters on Sun Apr 20, 2008 at 01:56:28 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Independence from Reality (2.00 / 1)

I do not make an assertion without having facts to support it - if I weren't sure, I wouldn't argue.  You will figure this out sooner or later.


by bobbank on Sun Apr 20, 2008 at 02:55:51 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Independence from Reality (2.00 / 1)

But I guess you guys will downrate people who simply repeat what the WH papers and witnesses showed -- Clinton worked to try to pass NAFTA.


We care about politics because we know politics matters for people's lives and opportunities.
by politicsmatters on Sun Apr 20, 2008 at 02:05:45 PM EST
[ Parent ]

dear commenter... (none / 0)

feel free to ignore my diaries if the style bothers you.  while i'm sure you believe your criticism is essential to the betterment of my life, i don't care.  there you have it.

i don't recall declaring that "they are independent of gutter politics."  perhaps you could be more clear in your assertions, and stick to the facts instead of making them up.

since your assertion is based upon a false premise, i see no reasons to address your false conclusions.  they are necessarily false.  i suspect you knew that...


"I believe he can win. If he runs a campaign anywhere like the terrific campaign he ran to get the nomination, he'll win handily." - Ed Rendell
by bored now on Sun Apr 20, 2008 at 09:19:50 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Don't let these nitpicking whiners (2.00 / 1)

deter you from posting another good diary, bored now, you're doing good work here.


by ReillyDiefenbach on Sun Apr 20, 2008 at 11:21:08 AM EST

Re: Don't let these nitpicking whiners (2.00 / 4)

I don't think it's "nitpicking" to point out that Obama is running a very negative campaign centered around character destruction.


by bobbank on Sun Apr 20, 2008 at 11:24:32 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Don't let these nitpicking whiners (none / 0)

The only ad Hillary Clinton is running in half the state is calling Barack Obama an elitist.

Is Barack Obama running anything comparable anywhere?


by Mostly on Sun Apr 20, 2008 at 11:34:19 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Don't let these nitpicking whiners (2.00 / 2)

Oh you're so right.  It's far more uplifting when Obama says that Hillary cannot be trusted, when it implies that she is controlled by special interests when he has actually taken more money from them, when his campaign says that she is such a dirty liar that she "lacks the moral authority" to place a wreath on a tombstone (gag), and when they say she will say and do anything to win.

That is SO much nicer than calling someone an elitist for saying something that was elitist.


by bobbank on Sun Apr 20, 2008 at 12:35:30 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Don't let these nitpicking whiners (2.00 / 1)

If HRC isn't running a more negative campaign than Obama, then she is running an even more incompetent one that we thought, because the voters certainly have that impression.


by interestedbystander on Sun Apr 20, 2008 at 01:31:35 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Don't let these nitpicking whiners (2.00 / 1)

That's a pretty clever comeback, actually. =)

The answer of course is that it's quite easy to give voters that impression when the media is acting as your megaphone in delivering it.


by bobbank on Sun Apr 20, 2008 at 02:50:37 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Don't let these nitpicking whiners (none / 0)

Yep, it's always the media.


by interestedbystander on Sun Apr 20, 2008 at 04:17:23 PM EST
[ Parent ]

that's the problem... (2.00 / 1)

here you have a democrat who is actually loved by the media, but we're supposed to reject him because... he's loved by the media.

ooooooookay...


"I believe he can win. If he runs a campaign anywhere like the terrific campaign he ran to get the nomination, he'll win handily." - Ed Rendell
by bored now on Sun Apr 20, 2008 at 08:37:30 PM EST
[ Parent ]

And you are outspending Hillary by 3-1 or more.. (none / 0)

3-1 I think is a low estimate..

BTW, are those newspapers a lot of the same ones that endorsed George Bush?

I am wondering..  Lets face it, Obama did badly in the debate, the first one in which he had faced any serious questioning, and now he is flailing and doing desperate things to try to defame Hillary because he knows that if he loses PA he will lose his illusion of infallibility and people will start asking many more of the hard questions now, instead of after he gets the nomination.

Also, he is desperate to avoid any serious discussion of issues like healthcare because he is lying to the American people on what he plans to do in 2012. (He has said he wont tackle the healthcare issue until 2012, four years from now, the last year of his term. In that period, at least 84,000 people will die of preventable health issues caused by their lack of access to affordable health care (assuming the rate of uninsured and underinsured stays the same and does not grow as it probably will during that period of inaction)

Obama's whole healthcare plan is based on a concept called 'consumer driven' healthcare which cuts the cost of health INSURANCE BY INSURING LESS and exempting more. In the long run, this leads to problems because people dont see doctors and they don't buy drugs they need.


Universal healthcare IS a Democratic value
It's been defeated
Obama has the best $PIN that money can buy.
by architek on Sun Apr 20, 2008 at 04:19:58 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: And you are outspending Hillary by 3-1 or more (none / 0)

3-1 is low ?  The last figures i have seen are $7m to 2.9m - so that would make 3-1 high.  Do you have more recent figures?


by interestedbystander on Mon Apr 21, 2008 at 05:17:36 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Uh, do the words "kitchen simk" (none / 0)

ring a bell?  You really are living in an alternate plane of existence if you are imagining that Hillary's campaign is about anything other than destroying Obama at this point.  A vain attempt to convince superdelegates that Obama is a bad seed.  To hell with her and her politics of personal destruction.  As happens oftentimes, the victims of abuse turn into the worst abusers.


by ReillyDiefenbach on Sun Apr 20, 2008 at 11:47:32 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Uh, do the words "kitchen simk" (2.00 / 4)

The words "kitchen sink" ring a bell because they were written into a talking points memo by David Axelrod and are now being parrotted by you.

You candidate, even by the admission of Chicago papers, has done nothing since TX/OH but engage in the character destruction of not only Sen. Clinton, but any other good, decent Democrat that stands in their way, including Tavis Smiley.

While he was busy obsessing over Hillary's 'hopelessness' and devoting millions of dollars to lying about her, Hillary spent her time:

- becoming the first Democrat to unveil a substantive plan that not only tells us how we can draw down our troops in Iraq, but how we can win

- reminding us that Cancer is curable in our lifetime, and announcing a national initiative to find a cure

- developing a plan to offer treasury bonds, similar to savings bonds, through which the public can help finance the rebuilding if our highways, and create 3 million new jobs in the process

- re-iterating a plan to stem the foreclosure crisis that she has been advocating since before she even began campaigning, adding measures to freeze mortage rates

You know what all that sounds like to me?  It sounds like a candidate that is working hard to develop real solutions, and focused on solving problems rather than mud-wrestling with her opponent.  Will her campaign fire shots at Obama?  Absolutely.  But it isn't their raison d'etre, the way it is for Obama.

Take your head out of the sand.


by bobbank on Sun Apr 20, 2008 at 12:42:49 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Her latest lie is to claim that (none / 0)

MoveOn, an organization funded to help people "move on" from Bill's little impeachment problem, opposed invading Afghanistan, and had engaged in voter intimidation.  Demonstrably untrue, and more evidence that she has become unhinged in her attempts to discredit the progressive wing of the democratic party.  Way to go, Hillary, try to kill the base!  Keep it up, and you'll back into something, but it sure won't be the nomination.  Indiana has already flipped to Obama, then a huge win in NC, then another in Oregon, and boom, we got ourselves a nominee with plenty to spare.

We Obama suppporters want a president who doesn't have a problem with telling the truth, who doesn't "embellish" or repeatedly "misspeak" the same "misstatement."  We don't want our president dragged through the mud by scumsucking republicans and maybe impeached for lying.  We have had enough of lies, and thank the loard, this time we have a candidate who isn't afraid to tell the truth.


by ReillyDiefenbach on Sun Apr 20, 2008 at 01:23:02 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Her latest lie is to claim that (none / 0)

look - I am a member of moveon when it started out and I can tell you that 3 million people is not the base of anything.


by colebiancardi on Sun Apr 20, 2008 at 02:10:33 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Her latest lie is to claim that (2.00 / 4)

The HuffPo hitjob has already been discredited by their own people.  Try to stay current.

A few Obama lies that come to mind:

- NAFTA talks with Canada "did not happen, end of story."

- Obama claimined in a Las Vegas interview that his campaign was not fanning the flames of racism in South Carolina - days later Tim Russert showed him four pages of dirty racist slander that his campaign had released, prompting Obama to apologize on national television for his lie

- How much of Rezko's dirty money did Obama take?  First it was $10k, then $50k, then $100k, then $150k then.. whoops!  I meant $250k

- Did Obama ever hear controversial remarks in the pews?  Depends on which day you ask him.  He never heard such controversial remarks.  Of course he heard remarks that were controversial.

- Obama doesn't take a time of special interest money.  Whoops!  Over 60% of the money he had raised as of February were special interest dollars.

- He has a plan for universal healthcare.  Whoops!  Actually it leaves 15,000,000 people out.

- The only way we can sever ourselves from special interests is through public financing, so I am pledging to accept public finances.  Whoops!  Actually these special interest dollars are pretty nice.  I think I'll keep em!

- Read my lips.  I promise not to increase taxes on anyone making over $250,000 a year.  Whoops, I'm going to double capital gains tax.  Whoops, I'm going to increase payroll taxes for folks making more than $100,000 a year.

- My campaign only speaks about Bosnia when asked.  Whoops!  We're actually staging a press conference and campaign event based around it on Saturday.  Maybe we can get a retired General to say something really tasteless.

I can keep going for the next two pages.  So there are only two possibilities with you:

1. You are full of crap.
2. You didn't know better.

I'm going to assume it was simply a case of not knowing better, because I prefer not to think of you as a baseless liar.


by bobbank on Sun Apr 20, 2008 at 02:47:02 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Lots of mojo for you Bob. . . (2.00 / 1)

. . .on this thread for taking the time to patiently and thoroughly debunk all the false claims--including going to the trouble to provided multiple links, and even video! And, doing so without getting personal and/or losing your temper. You are a very good spokesperson for Hillary


by freemansfarm on Sun Apr 20, 2008 at 03:14:33 PM EST
[ Parent ]

And I have no more time to waste with you . (1.00 / 1)

You are full of ink, we all can see that, but your near impenetrable thickets of lawyeristic verbiage cannot hide the truth.
 Regardless of how many times you type in the little box that Hillary didn't say what she said, the fact is that she did say it.  Her own guy is doing the crabwise thing right now:

"Hillary Clinton's senior campaign strategist on Sunday defended as true private remarks made by the senator in which she blamed her electoral defeats on a Democratic activist base with whom she has disagreed.

Geoff Garin, who took over the reigns of the campaign several weeks ago from Mark Penn, sought to diffuse anger and concern over Clinton's comments -- which were reported by The Huffington Post -- by casting them as nothing more than legitimate political analysis.

 The truth is that we agree with MoveOn [the Democrat group Clinton singled out] on lots of issues, disagree with them on some," said Garin. "One of them is they've endorsed Senator Obama and they have been very effective in these caucuses."

"Asked to specify exactly which issues Clinton and Moveon had disagreements, Garin demurred, saying simply it was a "particular set of foreign policy issues," not "everything." Pressed to discuss when, as Clinton claimed, MoveOn had "flooded" caucuses and "intimidated" voters into supporting Obama, he attempted to sidestep the question.

"I don't want to... I'm here for two weeks now, so this comment was made in, I believe, at the beginning of March,..."

So there are only two possibilities with you:

1. You are really, really full of crap.
2. You didn't know better.

  Robert Reich has Hillary's number.  He was going to stay neutral until the nomination, but he couldn't stand Clinton's toxic campaigning.  "Pure Republicanism," he called it.


by ReillyDiefenbach on Sun Apr 20, 2008 at 03:23:40 PM EST
[ Parent ]

lol... (none / 0)

a hillary supporter accusing someone of character destruction.  now that's rich!


"I believe he can win. If he runs a campaign anywhere like the terrific campaign he ran to get the nomination, he'll win handily." - Ed Rendell
by bored now on Sun Apr 20, 2008 at 09:20:19 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama Declares Independence from Gutter Politi (none / 0)

Kudos, bored, and here's hoping for the best Tuesday.


Hooray for John McCain!
by ragekage on Sun Apr 20, 2008 at 11:38:36 AM EST

Does he now (2.00 / 2)

Quick question: did Obama "declare independence from gutter politics" before or after his campaign held that press conference where they put up generals to say Hillary lacks the moral authority to honor the unknown soldier because she said she was under sniper fire in Bosnia?


by Trickster on Sun Apr 20, 2008 at 01:25:05 PM EST

Re: Does he now (2.00 / 2)

That comment was repudiated by the Obama campaign very, very quickly.  You can't always control the surrogates.  Just look at Ed Rendell!


We care about politics because we know politics matters for people's lives and opportunities.
by politicsmatters on Sun Apr 20, 2008 at 02:02:16 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Does he now (none / 0)

True enough, so I shouldn't use that comment to make my point.

They didn't repudiate the whole press conference, though.


by Trickster on Sun Apr 20, 2008 at 02:45:21 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Interesting as always (none / 0)

I remain pessimistic about Obama's chances in Pennsylvania.  There was a pattern on both Super Tuesday and on March 5th that emerged, and my guess is we will see it happen again.  The pattern is as follows:
Obama closes the gap to 5 - 8 one week out, but runs into a wall 24 - 72 hours out.  Exit polling shows Clinton consistently winning among the 10-15% who decide on election day.  

But the narrative may be fundamentally different in Pennsylvania. In some ways the ABC debate played perfectly into Obama's frame, and may increase his margins in the suburbs among the upscale voters where he has traditionally done well. If he can net enough in the Philly suburbs to offset the rural voters, he might just keep this under 5.


by fladem on Sun Apr 20, 2008 at 01:29:53 PM EST

Re: Interesting as always (2.00 / 1)

I think he'll be lucky to keep it within 10 points. Clinton's definitely going to win PA and probably pretty big.

But you never know!  Clinton only did +3 over the final poll of polls in OH so sometimes there's less change at the end than one might think.


We care about politics because we know politics matters for people's lives and opportunities.
by politicsmatters on Sun Apr 20, 2008 at 02:01:28 PM EST
[ Parent ]


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